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Irish <b>guitar chord</b> progressions on The Session Posted: 10 Oct 2014 01:31 PM PDT Irish guitar chord progressionsI have been playing guitar for about a year, and I know all my basic chords, plus a few more. However, when I look at some ITM guitarists, they seem to be doing chords up and down the neck of the guitar. Does anyone have some good suggestions for a chord progression for, say, the Congress reel? Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsThere are two or three different questions here really. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI would guess that JohntheFiddler already does that. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsThey play up and down the neck because that's where the chord they want is. :) Member AlBrown has an excellent intro to sessions and backing guide in his profile. It should give you some basic rules for figuring out chords. I don't know the Congress reel, but it's in Ador, so probably a bunch of Am and some G. Re: Irish guitar chord progressions"I don't know the Congress reel, but it's in Ador, so probably a bunch of Am and some G." Best advice so far. JohntheFiddler - a lot of tunes are pretty predictable in the way you almost instantly know which chords you can use even for tunes you haven't heard before. The trick is knowing when to change chords - something which (if you're a good accompanyist) will be crystal clear after one round, maximum two. For a tune like Congress reel, there really shouldn't be a problem at all (it's one of those tunes you'll conquer with just two chords), but this being said, I've heard a lot of attempts at such tunes and people still either change to early or too late. I don't get it. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWell, shades of Llig….ask a question and get your leg bit off… John, I suppose some would tell you that by giving you a straight-forward answer to the question you really asked, I'm a) guilty of encouraging you to pursue a worthless pastime (or at least one that is a long way from being essential—always keep in mind you will never be essential to this music, and if you ever forget, just ask here, and several people will be glad to remind you…) and b) dooming you to abject failure by trying to render assistance instead of telling you to just learn it yourself and stop asking questions. But since some very nice and talented people showed me some chords along the way (lessons, I think they called it), it seems reasonable to pass this on to you. ( I don't claim a lot of talent in this area, mind you.) Compared to some guitarists I have seen, this is pretty basic and straight-forward, but gives a little variety. As I said, I've seem much more complex back-up, but I'm not a fan of a too-busy string of guitar chords (distracting, to me). One chord per beat: B Part- same general idea. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWhile you can stay pretty much in first position all the time, there are lots of nice chords up and down the neck in standard tuning, and those tuned in DADGAD are often moving up and down the neck. It all depends on how you want to sound. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsThanks for your input everyone, I learned some dadgad chords and found exactly what I'm looking for. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsITM is as noted above essentially a melodic tradition, but I believe guitar certainly has a place. Each tune has its own rhythm and it is encoded in the melody itself. The guitar can support that intrinsic rhythm or detract from it, depending on how you play. If you learned guitar as many of us did through chordal accompaniment of popular, folk, and rock music, you may find it hard to accept that you must forget a lot of what you learned in order to contribute to ITM. Listening to Donal Lunny, I have always been most impressed more by what he doesnt play than what he does. One of the advantages of bouzouki is the fifth tuning, which provides for a good rhythmic underpinning without too much clustering of harmonic information. With six string guitars, even with open tuning, there is a much denser complex of harmonics, and they can detract from the expression of the tune's intrinsic rhythm. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI took a great workshop last week at the Saltwater Fest in Portland Maine. The instructor was from The Acadia Trad School from Bar Harbor Maine. He uses drop d tuning and showed me many great chords to accompany trad tunes. Cheers! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI have to second CleverName and recommend (as I have a few times before) to read AlBrown's guide (in his profile). I am a long time but now ex-guitarist (too busy fiddlin) but I couldn't easily adapt from rock to Irish stuff. But I know enough to see that AlBrown hits all the nails on the head. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsDO NOT PLAY ANY Fmajor CHORDS in this tune! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsCompletely agree, yhaalhouse. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsLooking through the comments there seems to be a general attitude that the guitar can only be used rhythmically to accompany the melody but you have to remember that the guitar can play the melody as well. Indeed the whole thing about guitars is that they can play the melody and chords together. Re: Irish guitar chord progressions[*Looking through the comments there seems to be a general attitude that the guitar can only be used rhythmically to accompany the melody but you have to remember that the guitar can play the melody as well. Indeed the whole thing about guitars is that they can play the melody and chords together.*] Good post, khasab! I agree entirely :) Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsYes, ayedbl, whilst the F# notes in the tune are in fairly inconsequential places so that your F chords don't really clash, I would have to say that that Am - G - F progression is, in the opinion of this member and many others on this forum, really naff and should only be used when absolutely unavoidable (like when a tune is in Am and there are F notes on the beat). Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsDonaldK I'm not suggesting that guitarists " pick out bits of melody ", although , of course, you could. I'm saying guitars are capable of playing the entire melody and chords. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsApologies, khasab, for misquoting you. I think, though that in a session setting I would either play back up (chords and rhythm) or melody, but not both at the same time. I'm not good enough to do that and be heard above the other melody instruments. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI would recommend concentrating on playing bass lines that support the melody and move the chords along. This is possible playing largely in open position, but knowing a bunch of inversion voicings would be very helpful. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsJust…. 1) Realize that less is more, so don't think you've got to catch every "correct" chord change as it goes by, plus you don't have to always hit triads — diads are OK too, especially since melody players will sometimes differ on whether the third should be flatted or not. 2) And getting the rhythm down and groove-like is way more important than covering all the chords. What melody players don't want is a guitarist who's thinking about the chords all night, to the detriment of the groove. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWhen in Ador the F# notes are not 'inconsequential'. They are one of the notes in the mode. And employing a chord choice such as F natural major is WRONG! The appropriate harmony choices are constructed out of the notes of the mode. Using a chord spelt F A C (F major triad) is never appropriate. It's like trying to make a Bb chord work in (e.g. Paul McCartney's Let it Be (in diatonic Cmajor)!!! This particular error always indicates those that reallyprefer Led Zep to the Old Copperplate. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsNo apologies needed :) . You're right. It would depend on the arrangement and which other instruments were playing etc as the guitar is a lot quieter than many other instruments especially in an 'unplugged' pub session. And of course sometimes providing the rhythm is what the guitarist should be doing. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI would go as far to say the an F major chord is wrong in every A dorian tune. which means basically almost every Irish tune in Am, bar the odd exception tile Tamlin and the occasional jig . The tune is where its at and the chords are merely there to back up the melody , to support the tune. Any other Am tune suggestions where an F is appropriate ? Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsyhaalhouse -while I generally agree with you about not using an F chord in A dorian tunes, I must point out that Let It Be does in fact have a Bb Major chord in it. Re: Irish guitar chord progressions@Will Evans: I'm not defending anyone's right to play an F major chord at will in tunes with A as the tonal center, but somehow 51 pages with tunes in Am gives me a hint that it's OK. (compared to 78 pages with tunes in Ador) Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsF major chords should be used very sparingly, if at all, in A dorian tunes. They were once quite popular. Then for a time, some accompanists felt that an F major 7 chord was a quite trendy thing to throw into A dorian tunes. But where F#s are present, the F major chords clash, and even where there is no F# to clash with, F major chords tend to take the nice ambiguity of the tune's chord structure, and press it into a classical minor feel. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsyhaalhouse, I meant the F#s in The Congress. They're never on the beat and are always followed by G. In wasn't saying that I would play an F chord - I probably wouldn't even play one in an Am tune unless unavoidable. Having said that, I've heard plenty of professional trad musicians playing F naturals in A dorian tunes. On Transatlantic Sessions when they played Dolina Mackay they started the fourth part with an Fmaj7 chord. It worked, to a certain extent, even though it feels like an A dorian tune. But least they didn't go Am - G - F. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsOf course there's a chance that some the pure Am tunes are dorian (or something else), but there are tunes in Am whether you like it or not. And that F chord (C in Eminorish tunes, Bb in Dminorish tunes and so on) has been around for ages. I wonder if people have an issue with the possible clash or the function of the chord in relation to a tonic minor. If the latter, we should ban everybody from playing a G in Bminorish tunes. As simple as that. Have a listen to this (a recording from 1931!) - especially the second tune. The backing on Templehouse is really centered on C with occasional excursions into D land. And I kind of like it. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsId be interested jeff if you could link a few of these tunes ? i cant think of many Am tunes with an F nat in them .. Like Al says, i think they will actually be A dor tunes in the Am section. The classical Am has 2 types of Am scale Harmonic and melodic if my rudimentary classical music education taught me anything! :-) , none of which are relevant to Irish tunes IMO bar the odd exception as I mentioned. In fact I asked earlier if anyone could suggest tunes that DO have the F nat, so …… go for it , give us a few of these suggestions you reckon are in Am not A dor. Ive heard it done , fair enough, but not by trad musicians , rather by revivalists coming from other genres who bring those influences with them . Where would they even get the idea of going out of key with the 'backing' chords? Its very strange to my mind, throws me off as a tune player every time, FFs its not jazz we're playing! or a 'jam' free form inprov, its a traditional form with structure , basic concepts history, do's and dont's etc etc etc . If anything comes from this thread it would be great if even one backing guitar player swore off this kind of thing and decided to actually use chords that contain the same notes as the tune! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI think there are a few, Will. The Coleraine is the most obvious that springs to mind. I'll look for some more … Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsCon Casey's. Not strictly in classical Amin, but is in a minor mode based on A with F naturals, and on the strong beat at that. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsYes Coleraine and the gallowglass were 2 that had come to my mind. But after that ….. Im sure there are more, but the simple fact is that diatonic instruments based in the key of D such as pipes , flutes whistle dont have this note unless keyed or half holed so by the very nature of the music its going to be rare. Which is actually partly why i really like Am tunes with an Fnat :-) like Tamlin, your favourite tune Ben ;-) Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsYep! There is that flat VII in the Let it Be bridge! NO F NAT! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWell, Will, I think that was what I was saying. I generally try to avoid using an F chord in A dorian tunes as, to me, it just sounds cheesy. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsFair enough Donald, Scottish music is a different stream of the tradition. Irish music does not have a written constitution either :-) its just how I was taught as a young pup by the old dogs , and as tune player it makes no sense to me to be going out of key with the backing chords. The melody is the name of the game, the tune, anything that departs from the tune is IMO an imposition and what gets backers such a bad name in this business. It throws me off because its indicating a melodic direction that departs from the tunes direction , Im very aware of the chords and the backing and the chords are their to support the tune within the context of the music. So playing trad I expect and hope for [ and in fact demand :-)] the chords to reflect, within their rhythm and harmonic movement, the tune! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWill can speak for himself (as well as other people :) ) but he did say 'the same notes as the tune', not that are not in the scale. I must say I agree with him. I've played with backing guitarists who choose chords by what they think is a fitting progression, and thereafter only hear what they have in their head, meanwhile crushing the life out of the tune which does not conform to that progression (or even those chords). Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWell, if it's any consolation, I think you would find my backing chords fairly mundane. I'm one of those who occasionally throws in a relative minor on the fourth part of a major key pipe march but otherwise I try to stick to what I hear. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsTo say that you should never play chords outside the key or that contain notes that aren't in the melody is a bit restrictive. There are plenty of places where a secondary dominant chord can work, and some hornpipes that pretty much require them. Almost always in major keys, though. A better rule of thumb is, don't play a chord that has a note that clashes with the melody. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWell I agree with this .>> don't play a chord that has a note that clashes with the melody.<< but I maintain my position that the chords should stay in key !! Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI get that chord-based backing is not always required for traditional music, especially ITM. However it is not exactly rare to see guitar players backing tunes and doing it very well and it does not surprise me to see requests for chords on this site. What does surprise me is the response these requests get. in addition to guitarists, I have also seen plenty of melodeon players (and other similar instruments) doing ITM - they seem to be pretty sure which bass notes they are using, i.e. implying that they have in their mind a set of chords that they are aiming to play along with the melody. I have seen other instruments at sessions that provide chord backing and as I said above, it is not that rare - it may not be strictly traditional but it is not unusual in this day and age to see chords played. And therein lies the big question I have with this site: - if this site is happy to have so many tunes available for everyone to see and learn then why do so many people respond to requsts for chords with lines like 'go and work it our for yourself like the rest of us had to do'? If your attitude is that you should work everything out for yourself, why are you using a site that is built on the premise of sharing thousands of tunes and thousands of variations? So what if different people play different chords? The tunes on this site often run to over 10 different variations with even more in the comments section at the bottom of each tune - why not have a way of sharing chords too, even if there are different versions? And as for, 'why don't you learn a melody instrument?' - isn't that just a bit narrow minded? Maybe they don't want to, maybe they prefer guitar, maybe the answer to learning chords is to share them, kind of like how the whole site already shares a lot of very useful information? Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsGood points, dcef. We sometimes get a bit sharper than we should be in stating our opinions. And we sometimes have an unfortunate tendency to talk down to those who come here to learn. All things we should think about before we hit that 'post' button. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsSo Will, what should a backer play on tunes like The Wonder or The Golden Eagle? Play chords in the key, or chords that fit the melody? How about the first measure of Moving Hearts or Barre Island? What about Paddy Fahy tunes? Tunes that switch between major and mixolydian?Or a tune like Charle Mulhaire's Atlantic Waves where in the second half the melody is begging for a G7(V of IV) before the C chord? And although I'm perfectly happy to listen to or play tunes with no backing at all, the notion that an occasional minor substitution constitutes "progressive trazz" is, well, silly. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsTunes don't switch between major and mixolydian in Irish trad — that's what the backers do. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsAlright, then gam, I should have said tunes, for example, in D that alternate between C naturals and C#s Re: Irish guitar chord progressions# Posted by one day ago.Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI was taught in no uncertain terms around 1984 that there is No Substitution in Traditional Irish Music by an old , very experienced Irish fiddler , I didnt argue then and Im not arguing now. If you choose to disagree thats your opinion,Do you play the tunes yourself? Suffice to say that as a fiddler myself 3o yrs on I dont appreciate it at all when it is done to me by a backer and Ive explained why above. If you find players who appreciate it ,well good for you . 8-) Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI just ran into the strangest tune at the session last night. The A part started out clearly in E minor, but then the rest of the tune was in solid, predictable G major. Wasn't able to get the name, but tunes often have a way of defeating our attempts to put them in neat boxes. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsEm and G is quite normal, such as the Kid on the mountain and numerous others . An East Clare [i think] tune that I found quite rare was the first part in G, the the second in A … name that tune anyone?, I've only heard it twice, both on the same day, different sessions in Feakle……. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsAl - Em into G major - strange? Some even say that the change is a key feature of Em tunes (Drag Her Round the Road, Fermoy Lasses, Alice's reel, George White's Favourite spring to mind). The opposite isn't that rare either, whether from G to Em or from D to Bm (or for that matter, Bm to D). Multi-part tunes typically change keys. G into A on the other hand, that's weird. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWill, just a small point, but your arguments would be much more respected by me and, I suspect, others if you desisted in your rather recent habit of unnecessarily using the acronymic interjection "FFS". If it stands for what I think it means then it really has no place in a reasoned discussion. Fine if you've just hit your thumb with a hammer, but here it is just plain crude. Nae need, man. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsIf my mystery tune was an E minor part followed by a G major part, that would have been nothing too unusual. But this one was just a bar or two of E minor, and then the rest of the A part in G major. I am probably not describing it well, but it was definitely unique. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsHmm, I still don't see what's so strange about a tune that starts with one chord and goes on to another. Do you have any idea of the name of the tune, source etc.? Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsFair enough Al, maybe find out next time , if possible , what the tune was? Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsWhat is a melody instrument? I thought that a guitar with 22 frets and 6 strings might possibly be used to play melodies. I may be mistaken but I think I've seen it done and even done it myself. Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI play a rake of tunes on guitar myself and who can doubt the brilliance of Dick Gaughan playing tunes on Coppers and brass. The guitar is both a melody and chordal instrument, possibly why its such a popular instrument. Dont worry about it harmonic minor , the fiddlers are probably just jealous ;-) Re: Irish guitar chord progressionsI agree, Will Evans. Why do I get the feeling that the original post was a wind-up? |
Playing <b>Guitar</b> – Let Us All Play in One a <b>Chord</b> - LDS Blogs Posted: 06 Oct 2014 01:57 AM PDT Everyone wishes they had stuck with those piano lessons; piano music is often beautiful and has a wide range and depth to it. So I'm going to teach you about guitar. Guitarists have it easy in a number of ways, and it's not too terribly difficult to pick up as an adult. The instrument itself can be fairly cheap, with online stores like offering guitars as low as $50, though local music stores may have better deals. Keep in mind, you do tend to get what you pay for, but there are sales and odd suppliers that might net you high quality for low prices. Generally, a good guitar ranges from $100-200. If you can, try to play a guitar before you buy it. One thing to especially pay attention to is how easy it is to hold down the strings up at the top of the guitar. Try pressing on your cheek bone until it stops squishing, and you feel the solidness of the bone. That's about the right amount of pressure when holding down those strings. Guitar: Obtained. Now What?First, you must tune it. Each string should play a specific note when plucked or struck. From lowest to highest notes (and thickest to thinnest strings): E A D G B E There are a number of ways of getting those notes right; there are websites and videos that will play the tones, there are pitch pipes (they sound like a six-note harmonica), and good old guitar tuner gadgets that clamp onto the head of the guitar and tell you what note you are playing. To tune the string, turn the knob one way or the other to raise or lower its pitch. If you try to tune it too high, it may snap, and if too low, it will rattle. Even after you tune it to the correct note, the string will tend to stretch until it gets used to the new tension. If a string does break, don't worry; it's pretty cheap to replace. Reading Tablature and Chord DiagramsI honestly feel sorry for most classical musicians. Sheet music is not really made to complement any instrument I know of. Tablature (or tabs), on the other hand, is a good graphical representation of what to do with the guitar. Each line is dedicated to a string on the guitar, and the numbers on the line tell you where to put your fingers. Look at the neck of the guitar. See the spaces between the ridges? That's where you press the strings down. The first space at the top of the guitar is 1, the next is 2 and so on. Zero just means don't press down on that string, and x means don't play that string at all. Chords: A Am C D Dm E Em F G G7 e———-0——0——0——2——1——0——0——1——3——1—— B———-2——1——1——3——3——0——0——1——0——0—— G———-2——2——0——2——2——1——0——2——0——0—— D———-2——2——2——0——0——2——2——3——0——0—— A———-0——0——3——x——x——2——2——x——2——2—— E———-0——0——x——x——x——0——0——x——3——3—— While looking for tablatures online, keep an eye out if it says "tabs" or "chords." Tabs will generally show you the individual notes played, and are more accurate to the source song. Chords tend to just show what chords go along with what sections, and thus don't take as much practice to make it sound somewhat like the song. Keep in mind, a lot of tabs and chords are fan-produced, and might not be completely accurate. You may have to adjust how long and when you play chords, or even change or drop chords entirely. There will be songs that require alternate tunings, at which point I would recommend having a tuning device. More often, there are songs that require you to capo your guitar. A capo is a clamp specifically made to hold down strings in a fret. This essentially changes the key you are playing your guitar in, and is useful for playing the easier open chords, rather than barred chords, which take a certain amount of finger strength to hold down. Practice playing the guitar Practicing changing chords is very important. You need your fingers to be quick, and to remember chord shapes. Start off strumming slowly, giving yourself plenty of time to change between strums. As you get better, increase the tempo. A good way of doing this is to find a song with simple chords, and play it. It helps, as well, to sing while playing the song, so that you can keep to the timing and remember where you are. As you play, your fingers will get sore. Over time, your fingers will develop callouses on the tips, and this will help you play longer. Just be careful about playing after a shower, or any time your fingers are wet for a while. The callouses will be soft, and tend to peel off if you aren't careful. If it has been a while since you last practiced, you may find you will have to develop callouses again. This is just a fact of life for guitarists; though you can use these callouses to poke hot things somewhat safely, so there is that. I'll be writing about more advanced things next week, but this should be enough to get you started. One of the nice things about guitar is there is a lot of popular music that can be played with a basic understanding of chords. Find something you like, keep practicing, and you will be well on your way to a satisfying musical hobby, or an alternate source of income as a street performer. Summary Article Name Playing Guitar – Let Us All Play in One a Chord Author Brandon Quist Description Thinking about playing the guitar? Here's what you need to know to get started. |
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